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Post by Hari Seldon on Apr 17, 2019 17:56:41 GMT
The producers and writers at NCIS couldn't have known it at the time, but this episode serves as a timely reminder that "when some people did something", there were victims at the Pentagon as well as the World Trade Center. Reading about the current controversy I had a feeling that many have forgotten about the second target that got hit.
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Post by sukismom on Apr 17, 2019 19:06:24 GMT
Excellent episode! I loved the way McGee stood up to and challenged Gibbs. It's past time that Gibbs quit hiding information while demanding that the team tell him "everything". I'm liking Kasie more with each episode as well.
As Hari noted, people seem to forget that the WTC wasn't the only disaster site on 9/11. The Pentagon also took quite a hit. Just because it's a military installation doesn't mean people aren't still affected.
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Post by verdun on Apr 17, 2019 20:04:15 GMT
One of the better episodes this season. Not much suspense about "whodunit" because we only saw a couple of possible suspects. For most of the series, McGee has been an add on character. Nice to see him take center stage more and more.
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Post by nas on Apr 17, 2019 20:50:01 GMT
I’m posting this review reluctantly because I know I’m going to catch some flack for what I say, but hey, that’s never stopped me before so I guess it shouldn’t stop me now...
this episode bordered on insulting my intelligence, and if there’s anything I hate more is having writers write dumb sh!te and expecting me to believe - and enjoy - it! (yes, I really am pissed off about the storyline of this one!)
this one could have easily been subtitled “Out of the Blue”:
> “out of the blue” we find Tim and Delilah (correction!: Bishop) are comic-con fanatics who are desperately trying to get passes for an upcoming convention? Bishop is willing to pay 1500 bucks for a badge - if only she had the $$$? then we see McGee & Bishop acting like a couple of crazies when he tells her Delilah managed to snag 3 passes - while Torres looks on in disbelief... (gotta go with Torres on this one; for a minute there I thought I was watching an episode of the Big Bang Theory...) not to mention the DoD computer analyst, who also happens be a comic-con fan - and, of course, Palmer, who in the end is also a huuuge fan... he saves the day by getting SIX passes because [the never seen anymore] Breena knows somebody who knows somebody, and now they all get to dress up in July and go be Star Wars nerds... YAY!!
except Torres “has plans” and will not be joining them... so, who do they think they should ask? Gibbs!?! because he is a “man of mystery”, and who knows? he might just be into comic-cons as much as they are... yeah right! 😖
o.k. - moving on:
> “out of the blue” we learn that LJG had a fiancé that supposedly died on 9/11 that nobody knew about - NOBODY? not even Vance? I realize they have always written Gibbs as a private person - a “closed book” as McGee called him, but I find it hard to believe that Gibbs would not have shared the loss of someone he knew, let alone someone he supposedly “loved”, on 9/11... who didn’t do that? that’s just too hard for me to swallow; I can’t buy it..
one other thing is nagging at me, so I went back to watch the scene to make sure I got it right... regarding the blood on Ellen’s uniform: when Gibbs cut himself in the basement and she wiped the blood off with the sleeve of her jacket are we to believe that she didn’t have that uniform dry cleaned immediately to remove the blood - AND that just happened to be the uniform she was wearing the night she was murdered?
and finally, what was that bit with Gibbs ripping off the feet of the chair with his knife? I assume he was meant to be this big, bad, scary, intimidating interrogator, right? maybe because I was so fed up with the episode by then, I just thought that scene was laughably stupid...
I truly am sorry, folks, but this episode was a total and utter Failure for me...
There - I’ve said it!
nas
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Post by Llyan (Admin) on Apr 17, 2019 21:49:56 GMT
I wish I had the 1st clue. He did it twice. Once when he was the "suspect" and again when he was the interrogator. It made no sense whatsoever.
I got something wrong last night. Here's the correction:
When Tony started working for NCIS in October 2001 Gibbs and Stephanie were in the process of divorcing so it looks like he dumped Ellen because "he loved her too much" and instead married Stephanie. Or he was already married to Stephanie and got engaged to Ellen before he remembered he was still married to Stephanie.
Getting this stuff right should be easy so I can only assume the show runner(s) and writers are getting it wrong on purpose.
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Post by nas on Apr 17, 2019 22:39:58 GMT
you wrote last night that the “timeline” was off, NewBe, and you were absolutely correct!
the show runners and writers should be ashamed of themselves for making that kind of mistake!
I can only assume they: 1) think the viewers are too stupid to remember, OR ... 2) think the newer viewers don’t know the timeline of Gibbs’ marriages/divorces OR... 3) don’t really give a damn about what we, the viewers, think!
they just seem to be cranking out this stuff with no regard to reason or continuity/canon of the show that’s been ongoing for 16 seasons...
wow! they just renewed for season #17! 🤔 gotta’ wonder what kind of drek they’re going to scrape off the bottom of the barrel for those 24 episodes...
this episode is making me think about the other 2 episodes that I hated soooo much: 1) Palmer becoming an M.D. without anyone’s knowledge, and... 2) DiNozzo being a “Daddy” to ninja-girl’s child...
I just hate being the Realist that I am... 😕
nas
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Post by Llyan (Admin) on Apr 18, 2019 2:37:06 GMT
My two worst's are: Jet Lag and Surprise you're a daddy after a one night unprotected sex night. (I've fortunately forgotten the title). Even though they'd begun the trashing of the DiNozzo character in Season 7 and it got worse and worse all the way to his end in S13.
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Post by pdsmith777 on Apr 18, 2019 3:11:33 GMT
I enjoyed the episode. I think the show runner has done a better job the past few episodes and seems to have his feet under him now. The main story lines are done well, yes the B lines are a bit childish, but I can easily ignore them.
My simple complaint for this episode would be that Palmer was completely goofy in this one. No real use of Dietzen's talent, except comedic, but that can be forgiven for now.
It's taken two years, but they have finally delivered on the promise of a changed Gibbs and McGee after Panama. It's good to see the changes in both.
Personally, I have no problem with discovering that Gibbs was engaged. Time line's with this show, along with cannon, were tossed in the early years, I've come to terms with it and moved on. The surprising thing to discover was, she was blond to what I could tell.
I actually have more to say, but will hold my tongue for the moment.
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Post by jessielee on Apr 18, 2019 14:50:59 GMT
The first time when he was suspect, the chair wobbled because there was only one of these stoppers while 3 were missing. The second time made no sense as all 4 were they should be. So it was likely an intimidation tactic.
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Post by llyan on Apr 18, 2019 15:22:52 GMT
It's taken two years, but they have finally delivered on the promise of a changed Gibbs and McGee after Panama. It's good to see the changes in both.
I don't think I could agree with you any more on this. There have been a lot of really great McGee/Gibbs moments this season going all the way back to Fragments. But these last two episodes, they've been really great. From Tim questioning Gibbs in Perennial and Gibbs opening up about his doubts about burning rule 10 to this episode where Tim threw Gibbs off the case until he finally fessed up to what he had been hiding. I was glad that Tim showed up to support Gibbs at the end and then pushed him into the closure he needed.
It is kinda sad for Gibbs though. Even if he had prevented her death that night, chances are pretty good that Ellen would have been killed the next day along with the rest of her division when the plane struck the Pentagon. Maybe that might ease the burden of guilt that Gibbs carried for not answering the phone.
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Post by jessielee on Apr 18, 2019 15:46:40 GMT
The big minus were Jack and McGee - for me. McGee first was too cowardly to confront Gibbs about the engagement photo. Something that he should have done. If he was too afraid, he should have went to Vance, because most likely Gibbs would have told Vance the truth. McGee refusing to interrogate Gibbs. As SFA he should have done it, he failed there. As much as DiNozzo was written as clown, he would have done that and probably directly after the photo was found. Jack interrogating Gibbs and then trying to turn it into a therapy session with asking about what were so different about Ellen, that he broke off the relationship. Sorry, this is a) not relevant to the case and b) hello, interrogation means recording, that's a total no-go, Jack! No wonder Gibbs left after that. McGee telling Gibbs off the case came too late, and he could have handled that better. But his biggest fail: breaking into Gibbs house with his knife b/c for once Gibbs locked the door in order to get answers and then practically bullying Gibbs in his own house. If he wanted answers, he should have interrogated Gibbs. Bullying him at work is one thing (Gibbs does it often enough), but to go to one's home and bully the owner in his own home - this is unacceptable. Gibbs should have thrown him out. I'm disliking McGee more and more, not that I was a fan to begin with. I actually won't be sorry if he left to go working in the private sector. This is an episode where Vance's involvement would have improved the storyline.
the timeline was off - like usual, after all the writers played with the timeline throughout most seasons eg Gibbs birthyear was first 1958 before it changed to 1954 after The Calling arc. This shit happens when there's no writer's bible. It's easier to ignore this instead of getting annoyed over it.
this one could have easily been subtitled “Out of the Blue”:
> “out of the blue” we find Tim and Delilah (correction!: Bishop) are comic-con fanatics who are desperately trying to get passes for an upcoming convention? Bishop is willing to pay 1500 bucks for a badge - if only she had the $$$? then we see McGee & Bishop acting like a couple of crazies when he tells her Delilah managed to snag 3 passes - while Torres looks on in disbelief... (gotta go with Torres on this one; for a minute there I thought I was watching an episode of the Big Bang Theory...) not to mention the DoD computer analyst, who also happens be a comic-con fan - and, of course, Palmer, who in the end is also a huuuge fan... he saves the day by getting SIX passes because [the never seen anymore] Breena knows somebody who knows somebody, and now they all get to dress up in July and go be Star Wars nerds...
Have to correct you there, nas: it wasn't Breena, but some relative of Stan Lee who is apparently friends with Palmer. Actually that is something that I can buy, mainly because of a) for a long time noone, not even Ducky who knows him the longest, knew about Shannon and Kelly. It only came to light while Shepard digged into Gibbs' file after he was in the coma after the bomb explosion and b) when Hollis Mann returned to NCIS with Vance as Director, Vance asked him 'if that was another one of his ex-wives'. So while Vance knew about the ex-wives, he obviously didn't know who they were until he met them. Since Gibbs didn't share the info about Shannon and Kelly, he surely wouldn't share the info about a cancelled engagement. It was unrealistic, yes b/c Gibbs stated they had last meet in person two months prior to her death. But it also was the formal uniform and not the daily one. Maybe she wanted to take it to the dry cleaner's but forgot about it or accidently took another one there (after all she would have more than one uniform and blood on black can be easily overlooked), or next option she tried to wash the blood out by itself with cold water and it looked fine to her, but there were still some traces which Kasie did find.
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Post by nas on Apr 18, 2019 19:04:59 GMT
like I said in my post, jessielee, when LJG went in to interrogate Kent and he tossed the first chair against the wall, and then whipped out his knife and proceeded to rip the feet off the second chair it just looked laughably stupid...😂
I’m sure in their silly, immature minds the writers meant for this scene to portray Gibbs as a big, bad, scary interrogator, but it didn’t work for me...
throughout this entire episode they wrote him as intimidating, e.g., no one wanted to go into the interrogation room and question him! oooooh, what’s he gonna do? stab you with his big ol’ blade?
he is written as Super-Special NCIS Agent Leroy Jethro Gibbs, but imo, Gibbs is nothing but a big bully who often yells at the team, is arrogant, and makes for a lousy “interrogatee”...he was smug, and his refusal to answer questions that could have helped in solving Ellen Wallace’s murder was totally unacceptable...
at the expense of repeating myself, overall the writing for this episode was poor from beginning to end...
nas
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Post by Hari Seldon on Apr 18, 2019 20:24:27 GMT
Something I'm surprised has got no mention on this thread is Torres just giving away the Comicon passes that don't belong to him. He has no right to them, no ownership. Technically at that point they belong to Delilah who doesn't even work for NCIS. If I were McGee, my response to Torres would be that he better still have that big bank balance so he can buy the passes from Bishop's friend who wants to charge $1500. I'd love to see that conversation when McGee got home: "Delilah, you know those passes you got? Torres gave them away to someone in order to get some information on our current 18 year old case."
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Post by Llyan (Admin) on Apr 18, 2019 21:26:55 GMT
Something I'm surprised has got no mention on this thread is Torres just giving away the Comicon passes that don't belong to him. He has no right to them, no ownership. Technically at that point they belong to Delilah who doesn't even work for NCIS. If I were McGee, my response to Torres would be that he better still have that big bank balance so he can buy the passes from Bishop's friend who wants to charge $1500. I'd love to see that conversation when McGee got home: "Delilah, you know those passes you got? Torres gave them away to someone in order to get some information on our current 18 year old case."
THIS! So very much THIS! It came across he did it not to get the guy to assist them but because he's a jerk who belittles those who like things he thinks are stupid.
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Post by jessielee on Apr 18, 2019 22:39:15 GMT
Something I'm surprised has got no mention on this thread is Torres just giving away the Comicon passes that don't belong to him. He has no right to them, no ownership. Technically at that point they belong to Delilah who doesn't even work for NCIS. If I were McGee, my response to Torres would be that he better still have that big bank balance so he can buy the passes from Bishop's friend who wants to charge $1500. I'd love to see that conversation when McGee got home: "Delilah, you know those passes you got? Torres gave them away to someone in order to get some information on our current 18 year old case."
I forgot about that, though I wanted to address this too. No idea if Delilah caved or McGee, but he wouldn't have gotten the tickets from me. Plus why all three? One would have been enough! None would have been better after all it was the Pentagons tech's damn job to get the info. Would have been much funnier if he had to explain why he hadn't the tickets to the tech. I have no idea why the writers are trying to turn Torres into either a jerk or a clown. He had so much potential in his first season, and now...... smh Someone should nail a plank onto each writers forehead "Torres is not DiNozzo 2.0", so don't write him as DiNozzo.
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