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Post by pdsmith777 on Feb 28, 2017 4:07:01 GMT
You miss understood. I never said it was a good episode. I was simply explaining that there is a perfectly rational explanation for that one point. Time constraints are a huge concern for TV shows, and while the whole episode was, in my opinion, poorly written, that one point does have a logical rational.
And if they knew they were running long, and they do know these things as they are shooting, they could have gone to the writers and had them re-write the scene to fit the time limits. That is done everyday in TV and Film production. {Case in point. "Three Men and a Baby" Nemoy didn't like the script when he took over the reigns of director. He was going to bring in new writers, but the ones on the job asked to be given an chance to do a re-write, since they were only following the instructions of the original director. Nemoy liked the new script and shot it. During production, he wanted a different opening, so, he again went to the writers, asked them to give him two pages of a new opening, and that's what you now see in the movie. DVD commentaries and Autobiographies are great}
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Post by alessandra on Feb 28, 2017 13:35:31 GMT
Did you try to make a list of all things that didn't make any sense? I did, but maybe I forgot something...
- Tony would never sleep with a woman without protection unless he was drunk or sure she was on pills. So the question is: did Ziva lied to him?
Even if told "I'm on the pill" (or other form of birth control) it would be totally out of character for Tony to not go to the nearest drug store to buy and use condoms. Exactly! Another problem is that Ziva was an emotional wreck and there's no way Tony would take advantage of her state of mind even if she's the one who initiated it. Very true! Despite what they always tried to make us think that Tony didn't respect women, he's a very sensitive man that would never take advantage of upset people.
- No DNA test to be sure that Tali is Tony's daughter. What man would trust a almost complete stranger (Orli) and a woman who slept with Adam because she felt alone?
Seriously! It's 2017 and those DNA tests are very very common. For Tony just take Orli's word for it (and a few stares from Gibbs) - Ziva told her Tony was the only possibility - was ridiculous! More than ridiculous! And even dangerous because, what would happen if Tali needed a (for example) transplat and they find out that she's not his daughter in the end? I mean, with Ziva's past, any men would ask a DNA stat.
- Tali has been saved from a fire, doesn't know where her mom is, but she's perfectly fine and happy with Tony and Sr though she's never met them and she doesn't connects Tony with the man in the pic otherwise she'd immediately call Tony "Aba".
She had not a smudge on her. Even in a "safe room" she'd have gotten a little singed. Her not connecting the real Tony with the picture "aba" was just plain stupid writing. So true!!!
- Tony stops working and becomes a sort-of a nanny-housewife (lol). He looks so old, tired, sad and annoyed.
His life as he knew it was over in an instant. Maybe he was at a crossroads in his life but having a kid thrust upon after being lied to (by omission) for over 2 years (from the moment she discovered she was preggers). This alone makes me certain Tali didn't/doesn't belong to Tony. I'm with you. I'll never believe Tali is Tony's, because the real Tony would never had a baby with Ziva even by mistake.
- McGee asks Tony if he and Ziva were in love. Tony tells him that he and Ziva had "a fond goodbye" and he sounds very sarcastic, but in the next sentence he says that he loved her (after MW had said on Twitter that tiva never existed and it was just a fans' projection and that Tony and Z were just friends and partner on the job). He loved her but never contacted her for 2 years and when Jeanne came back they were both clearly still in love with each other? LOL
For a show that had a full-season and possibly more, for them to claim that they thought about it long and hard and decided it was the only way for Michael/Tony to exit said they DIDN'T give it any thought at all. So once again GG had plenty of time to think, plan and write a believable episode, but didn't write anything 'till the last moment... and he chose the way the loudest fans demanded. Not a surprise that the most part of writers were shocked and definitely not happy (euphemism)...
- Kort burnt Eli's house because he was afraid that Ziva still had Eli's secret documents about him. Yeah! Sure! Eli dies, Ziva leaves Mossad and the agency doesn't searches all of their properties in and off Israel looking for secret documents?! With Eli's past? Yeah! Sure! *sarcasm*
Exactly! That farmhouse would have been gone through with a fine tooth comb to make sure any and all sensitive materials were removed. Exactly!!!!"
- Tali has a perfectly clean go-bag with her favorite toy, Ziva's scarf and a framed pic of Tony and Ziva on the Vespa in Paris. Too bad that that pic never existed because Tony was the only one who had the camera and they didn't ask anyone to take pic of them... unless there was a paparazzo (LOL) or Mossad was tailing them and then they gave Ziva that photo.
That picture suddenly popping up was another "stupid". Tony returned from sightseeing (which she refused to do). Ziva put down her coffee, hopped on the scooter and they drove away. They did NOT have their photo taken together. It seems they put some scenes together, shaked up and shoot the episode.
- What mother would put a scarf and a framed photo in her baby's go-bag?
This one I kind of got. She had a DANGER! WARNING WILL ROBINSON go-bag. Something that was "we're never coming back" bag. You might be right, but in an emergency' go-bag, I would put medicine, diapers, clothes (maybe even baby food that do not expire for years) and defintely not my baby's favorite toy, because she plays with it every day and I should pick it up before leaving... but not in a bad fire.
- What Fire Dept man would take a go-bag while he's saving a little girl from a very bad fire? Did Orli bought Tali that bag and its content? Not possible because Ziva's scarf, Tali's toy and the fake pic are old things.
Another exactly! He'd/She'd grab the toddler and run with her. He/she wouldn't stop to grab her "suitcase". Definitely!
- They find Kort. McGee calls Tony. Tony arrives and kills Kort in cold blood and says that Ziva was his family. 1. Tony is not Gibbs, so he'd never kill in cold blood. 2. If Ziva had been Tony's family, he'd have never ever left her in a country in war (and especially with her Mossad past) and never contact her.
RIGHT! No call. No email. No text. No smoke signal. No nothing. Yep. That's love alright. Biiiiiig love! The greatest love of his life!
- Abby tells Tony that Ziva loved him and she knows that because Ziva told her. Really? When? Ziva never told Abby anything when she was in DC and after she left, she cut any contact with NCIS people. And more, Abby told Tony to forget about Ziva and move on. Was Abby lying? Did Ziva told Abby everything and asked her to not tell anything to Tony? Completely crazy!
Exactly! Abby told Tony she was never coming back to get over it and move on. She even head slapped him over his behavior. Do you think tptb realized that they were painting as a liar both she said Tony to move on or that Ziva told her she loved him?
- Tony talks with Gibbs in the basement and tells him that he's going to leave NCIS because he has to take care of Tali. It seems that Gibbs knew for months that Tony was going to leave. How?! Why?!
Seems to me Gibbs wanted Tony gone. He'd barely looked at or spoken to him in a couple of years. Accepting without proof that Tali belonged to Tony was just his way of making sure Tony quit his 15 year (5 more to go for a pension) without any other job (another agency?) on the horizon. Sad but true and extremely OOC for the Gibbs we knew and loved. Why did they decide to destroy Tony/Gibbs relationship and not get it back when Ziva quit? It was the core of the show! I'll never understand it! I know that, when MW told them he was not going to renew his contract, they had planned to write a rift between Tony and Gibbs, but to fix at the end of the season. So why they didn't do that?!
- Gibbs and Tony hugs, and the boss doesn't try to stop him. Crazy! After he moved this world and the other to get Tony back from Agent Afloat? Maybe Gibbs is no longer Tony's father figure, but the Team Leader of MCRT would never let the best agent he has, go without fighting. Never.
Tony had long since ceased being Gibbs 2nd in Command so it was pretty clear that Gibbs had lost faith in Tony's abilities (case in point: giving him the what-for when he met a woman in a bar and got his identity stolen). Seriously, how the heck was Tony suppose to know that a woman who professed to be attracted to him wasn't really attracted to him but setting him up as a mark?) Exactly! How many times Tony had all the reasons to lose faith in Gibbs' abilities and judgement but he never did? Tony stayed by his side, saved his a** more than once, confronted him, endured the consequences of his boss' wrong decision/mistakes, but never left his six. Why Gibbs dumped his SFA/SiC/friend/best-agent/son (if you see it) like he meant nothing?
- Tony tells Gibbs he's going to Israel looking for answers (what answers? Ziva's dead because Kort burnt her house end of the story) and then he'll take Tali to Paris because Ziva 'loves' (present) Paris. A stupid attempt to make tivas hope that Ziva is still alive? Actually, it's what some of them think. Horrible, because it mean they think that Ziva would leave her child in a fire and run away or that Ziva left her daughter alone at home and didn't care about her after she (Z) knew about the fire.
That was stupid too. She's not quite 2 years old and Tony, rather than getting the little girl settled into a routine decides to jet off to Israel & France. That child won't remember a bit of that. Hell, at just 2 she's not going to remember her mother. Agree 100%! My idea: Tony asks a transfer to another job on NCIS (trainer for undercover agents?), buys a bigger home and starts a new life with his daughter... after a DNA test. Easy and believable imo
- Tony leaves NCIS. How is he going to feed himself and Tali? We know he has money from his mom, but he's not Bill Gates and I can't see DiNozzo living with the money that Ziva left Tali or what she got from her mom's insurance. Maybe he'll get Genie of the Lamp to financially help him out . Genius!!!
- Brief nice talk between Tony, McGee and Bishop. A handshake with Ducky and a brief hug with Palmer in Autopsy, but we don't hear anything of what they say. What a waste!
Again, shows a huge lack of creativity. Writer couldn't think of anything Tony & his co-worker/friends would say to each other (possibly because he'd long since thrown the character (Tony) away. Sad but true. What about Tony and Palmer's friendship? Or Tony and Ducky's relationship? So many good things wasted with no reasons
- They show the box with Tony's belongings and... Surprise!... There's a pic of Tony and Kate in Colombia. The same pic we saw on "Life Before His Eyes" on Kate's desk, when Gibbs 'dreamt' that Tony and Kate were married... too bad that that was just a 'dream/epiphany' and that pic never existed.
That photo of Tony & Kate was silly too. It only existed in Gibbs slit-second "Life Before His Eyes". Yep!
- Tony leaves the bullpen after the talk with McGee and Abby. No one else is there.
GG was done with the character so he simply didn't care whether fans of the character from JAG onward liked it or not. And that was crazy and stupid! Fans didn't care what he felt about the character. Fans deserved a goodbye like we got when Gibbs quit and went to Mexico *grrr*
- As soon as the elevator closes, Reeves and Quinn arrive. They start talking about a case with McGee and Ellie. Gibbs arrives, takes a look to his new team, smiles and says "Grab your gear!"... Tony's already completely forgotten.
That smile was out of place and said [to me] that Gibbs was glad to see the back of Tony. Hell, he may have even orchestrated the "Tali is your kid" WOW! I didn't think about it, but you might be right (Original recipe Gibbs would never have let a DNA test just slide, in fact he'd have head slapped DiNozzo into oblivion for not insisting on one). Exactlyyyyyyy!!! I really do not understand why and who decided to change the show and all characters (for the worse) so much?! Why?!
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Post by alessandra on Feb 28, 2017 13:39:23 GMT
That can be written off to time constraints. A script for a TV drama is 42 pages. If they had gotten to page 40 +, then this would be a necessary way to save time. Could they have cut other places? Sure. Probably should have, but there is only so much you can do in 42 minutes of story telling. We'll have to disagree, PD. To me that episode was a kick in Weatherly's backside on his way out the door - even though HE gave them over a years notice. Everything he said he didn't want is what he was given which to me was the ultimate in disrespect and frankly, it was mean. Yep. It really seems they took all MW said (for years) he didn't want for his character and put it in his last episode. I wonder why...
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Post by terrij58 on Feb 28, 2017 19:53:13 GMT
I do too. I would be very surprised if we ever find out though.
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Post by pdsmith777 on Feb 28, 2017 21:43:56 GMT
I do too. I would be very surprised if we ever find out though. Somebody will write a "Tell-All" autobiography one day and will spill the beans. Then someone else will write a rebuttal "Tell-All" autobiography to correct the first, etc., etc., etc. [Just look at the cast of the original series of Star Trek]
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Post by terrij58 on Mar 1, 2017 1:02:30 GMT
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fanthom8
Journeyman Agent
This is somewhat confusing
Posts: 119
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Post by fanthom8 on Mar 5, 2017 15:30:20 GMT
I thought the episode was good, I liked it.
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Post by alessandra on Mar 5, 2017 16:21:07 GMT
The basement scene original script...
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fanthom8
Journeyman Agent
This is somewhat confusing
Posts: 119
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Post by fanthom8 on Mar 6, 2017 0:12:57 GMT
good script, so what's not to like?
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